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Superman Spoilers Welcome here - Blather, Rinse, Repeat
June 28th, 2006
11:02 am

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Superman Spoilers Welcome here
Spoilers are to be found below the cut and in the comments.

I think Bryan Singer hates dogs.

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From:wendywoowho
Date:June 28th, 2006 06:11 pm (UTC)
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OH NO!!! YOU RUINED THE MOVIE FOR ME, YOU HEARTLESS BASTARD!!!!
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From:tsmaster
Date:June 28th, 2006 11:36 pm (UTC)
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Seriously. This is not a movie made by a dog lover, even if Parker Posey was also in "Best in Show".

From:ericasco
Date:June 29th, 2006 01:31 am (UTC)
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There is a 68% chance that Parker Posey was also in any other movie.
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From:tsmaster
Date:June 29th, 2006 01:34 am (UTC)
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It's true. And the probablility increases to 100% as the number of "Josie and the Pussycats" sequels approaches infinity.
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From:strangeanimal
Date:June 28th, 2006 11:10 pm (UTC)
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oh, and apparently Clark Kent is really Superman.
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From:tsmaster
Date:June 28th, 2006 11:31 pm (UTC)
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So, there was a guy behind me in the theatre who was going on about (Kevin Smith's?) somebody's point that Superman is unusual in the superhero milieu, in that his "super" persona isn't a secret identity, whereas for Batman (and, I guess, almost every other superhero), it is.

I guess the argument is that Bruce Wayne dresses up to become Batman, and Superman dresses up to become Clark Kent.

I guess it's an interesting distinction to make... sort of. I don't think Superman's unusual in this regard, though - just to take the Justice League 7, you've got Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, and Hawkgirl. Of those, roughly half have exotic backstories (coming from alien planets and descending from gods), so it seems to me that these are all pretending to be mundane humans when they have to. (I guess Hawkgirl doesn't pretend to be human all that often, so maybe we can leave her out of this.)

Flash got his superpowers from some sort of toxic waste mishap, Green Lantern got his superpowers from a magic ring he got from a dying alien, and Batman got his super(?)powers from just practicing a bunch. And being rich.


I guess my point, insofar as I have one, is that when you say "Clark Kent is really Superman", it sounds much better than "Superman is really Clark Kent" for a good reason - but there are some that would have you believe that Superman's alone in this, and I think that's wrong.
From:ericasco
Date:June 29th, 2006 01:37 am (UTC)

But...

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Superman doesn't wear a mask. Most of those other folks do. The mask makes the face under the mask a secret identity, and I think that lies at the heart of Smith's point.

Superman's "mask" for the Clark Kent persona is a pair of glasses, which is ridiculous. But it is a way of covering the true identity. The argument, I think, is that the face is the true identity, and any intervening layer preserves the anonymity of that identity.

Of course, none of this holds for Wonder Woman, whose disguise is a bun and some sensible shoes.
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From:tsmaster
Date:June 29th, 2006 02:44 am (UTC)

Re: But...

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Hm, yeah, I suppose.

Going back to my Justice League example (because I'm enough of a geek to watch cartoons as an adult, but not enough of a geek to have read comic books as a youth) - Flash, Batman, and Hawkgirl wore masks, while the rest didn't. Er, maybe the Martian Manhunter did, in a way. Even with the mask, he certainly didn't pass for human. Nor did Hawkgirl, for that matter.


I need to go back to where ever it was that I originally came across the secret identity thing and see if there's more to it than I recall - as near as I can figure it, around half of superheroes show their faces.


I wonder if the number's substantially different for supervillains. Lex Luthor doesn't wear a mask. The Riddler does. Bizarro, Solomon Grundy, no mask. Black Manta, yes. But that's breathing apparatus, so maybe it shouldn't count.

Hm. Aquaman didn't wear a mask, nor did the Wonder Twins (nor Wendy nor Marvin). Cyclops wore goggles. Jean Grey and Dr. Xavier didn't wear masks, and couldn't even think up fancy names (Dr. X doesn't count!) for themselves. Spiderman, Green Goblin, and Daredevil wore masks. Elektra didn't.

Ok, that's plenty.
From:batmanmsd
Date:June 29th, 2006 02:56 pm (UTC)

Re: But...

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I need to go back to where ever it was that I originally came across the secret identity thing and see if there's more to it than I recall - as near as I can figure it, around half of superheroes show their faces

I believe you're thinking of Kill Bill Volume II

Bill speaking to Beatrix Kiddo:

An essential characteristic of the superhero mythology is, there's the superhero, and there's the alter ego. Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When he wakes up in the morning, he's Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic that Superman stands alone. Superman did not become Superman, Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he's Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red "S", that's the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears, the glasses, the business suit, that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He's weak, he's unsure of himself... he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race.
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From:tsmaster
Date:June 29th, 2006 03:19 pm (UTC)

Re: But...

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Ha! Thanks!

That must be what I was thinking of. And I still disagree with it. Wonder Woman and many others wake up in the morning "super" and don a human alter ego.


Aside (for I have no attention span): in looking for information on this stuff, I ran across "Amalgam Comics" - Dark Claw as an amalgam of Batman and Wolverine, Super Soldier as an amalgam of Superman and Captain America, and Amazon as an amalgam of Wonder Woman and Storm. I'd probably appreciate it more (or differently, or be offended by it) if I was deeper into comics.
From:batmanmsd
Date:June 29th, 2006 04:49 pm (UTC)

Re: But...

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Amalgam Comics

Yeah... I picked up a few of those when they came out a few years ago. They're an extreeeeeeemly weak crossover stunt by Marvel & DC. Bruce Wayne: Agent of Shield... No thank you. They were quite bad in my opinion.

The best squashing of characters I've seen was an Elseworld title from DC. It was called Superman Speeding Bullets.

Instead of baby Kal-El's spaceship crashing in Kansas where the Kent's find him, it crashes outside of Gotham City and the Wayne's find him. When young Bruce's parents are shot in the alley, he's so mortified and angry his heat vision kicks in for the first time and he roasts the guy.

Bruce grows up in seclusion and around age 21 he buys the Daily Planet. Lois becomes his love interest and he becomes Batman -- with all of Superman's powers. He is pretty dark even by Batman's standards... breaking bones, damn near killing evil doers, etc. Lex Luthor becomes the Joker. By the end of the book Batman becomes Superman. It was pretty good.

But Amalgam? Not so much.
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From:tsmaster
Date:June 29th, 2006 06:38 pm (UTC)

Re: But...

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Ah, well.

I recall several people mentioning the Elseworld stories before, those do sound interesting. What formats are they available in? For example, is Superman Speeding Bullets available as a graphic novel? Are they collected in any compilations?
From:batmanmsd
Date:June 29th, 2006 07:47 pm (UTC)

Re: But...

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Some Elseworlds are graphic novels some have been annuals. It's been awhile since I've picked any of them up.

Speaking of graphic novels, I've been reading Robert Kirkman's The Walking Dead and it's fantastic. You probably have to appreciate zombie movies to like it, but it's very well done. I really like how Image Comics has been releasing it. When every 6th issue is released, the previous 6 issues are reprinted as one big issue. So even though I'm 2 years behind discovering this one, I have the first 24 issues read and I'm simply waiting for volume 5 to come out to be completely caught up.

A zombie movie ends but this world just goes on and on and on. It's fantastic.
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